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Recently, the National Geographic's Genographic Project launched a new DNA test kit called GENO 2.0. It is an autosomal DNA test that covers very specific nuclear SNPs providing information about the history of our genes including a survey of our paternal line (Y chromosome), maternal line (mitochondrial DNA), and the deep ancestry written in the autosomes. It will link our DNA to the history of humankind as it started in Africa tens of thousands of years ago, all the way to the present time. I just ordered my own test, even though they won't be shipped until the end of October. This test will also compare genes between humans and apes, and even Neandertals, looking for surviving rare genetic links between our species and our closest relatives in the evolutionary tree.

National Geographic has a strong pro-evolution agenda, which continues to stimulates all sort of interesting thoughts in religious arenas about harmonizing the biblical creation account with evidence (particular genetic evidence) from science pointing to evolution (something that I have also speculated about in the past). Interestingly, just today, someone in a forum that does not like LDS beliefs mentioned me in a dissatisfied manner stating that "an LDS scientist speculates if those in the past were even human." Believe it or not, I don't think I am the first one that postulated that there were hominids more than 6,000 years ago, but I am flattered if someone would think so.

Here is a video by the Genographic Project introducing the new test.


 


Comments

doug
10/07/2012 10:00

Nobody rational disputes "that there were hominids more than 6,000 years ago." The issue is your apparent belief (following your argument) that those Asians who crossed the Bering Strait ten to thirty thousand years ago were sub-human. That position is simply indefensible and smacks of religious fanaticism.

Reply
10/08/2012 16:10

I did a presentation at the University of Utah a couple of years ago as an invited guest at the Transhumanism Conference, which is a movement where intellectuals from different disciplines are called to share thoughts on the origin and future of the human race. It was then that I shared some thoughts about the possible meaning of God creating man from the dust and then placing the breath of life in him (Genesis 2:7). It was also a personal attempt, not a firm belief, to try to reconcile the existence of hominids thousands of years ago, with the account of the creation found in the Scriptures. Several believing scientists have proposed similar arguments and I don't feel like I have shared anything new or sensational. I don't recall making any specific statements about Asians crossing the Bering Strait being sub-humans. You also admit that "nobody rational disputes that there were hominids more than 6,000 years ago" and you seem OK with the use of the term hominids, which is often used to define "human-like" creatures that are distant relatives to Homo Sapiens Sapiens (like Neanderthals). In all my scientific writing, I have always used the scientifically accepted general term of "Paleo-Indians" for the ancestors of modern-day Native Americans (see Perego et al. 2009 in Current Biology and Perego et al. 2010 in Genome Research). Your interpretation of what I might have said is probably based on what you would have liked me to say so that you would have a good reason to post something against me. Does that sound rational to you?

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hoggle4
10/08/2012 18:54

Dr. Perego said "It was also a personal attempt, not a firm belief, to try to reconcile the existence of hominids thousands of years ago, with the account of the creation found in the Scriptures."

Dr. Perego, right here and now you suggest that Paleo-Indians are not human but rather "hominids thousands of years ago". Please clarify yourself. You also said "you seem OK with the use of the term hominids, which is often used to define "human-like" creatures that are distant relatives to Homo Sapiens Sapiens (like Neanderthals)."

Now please Dr. Perego, what you are saying? Please no more making games with words.

Are you saying that Paleo-Indians were "human-like creatures" but only distant relatives to Homo Sapiens? A simple yes or no, please.

Are you are in fact suggesting that Paleo-Indians were only "human like" but something less than human? A simple yes or no, please.

Were Paleo-Indians Homo Sapiens? A simple yes or no, please.

Were Paleo-Indians human? A simple yes or no, please.

10/09/2012 05:56

Dear Hoggle4, thank you for posting again on my blog. I hope all is well with you. Sorry for the "making games with words," but the questions you are asking are not simple ones that could be answer with a yes or no. Let me explain. The only way to know EXACTLY what happened tens of thousands of years ago with regard to our early ancestor is something that would require a time machine. The next best thing is drawing some sort of hypothesis or theory based on data available from different disciplines. Some of these data is based on science and science has modified their conclusions through the years. To give you just an example. A few years ago, based on mtDNA variation, scientists agreed that Neanderthals did not breed with Homo sapiens sapiens (our species), then in 2012, after the first draft of the Neanderthal genome, a group of scientists proposed that the 1 to 4% of Neanderthal genome variation observed in anatomically modern humans was evidence of inbreeding. This year, a new paper on the subject, moved away from this conclusion again. So, what is the answer? It is a yes or a no? It all depends on who you are talking to and on the latest research.

I once spoke with Dr. Luca Cavalli-Sforza (considered by many as the "father" of population genetics). We asked him questions about some of his early works and his answer was "I cannot be accountable for something I published more than ten years ago!". He was so right. The theories about the origin and dispersal of humans has changed a lot over time and it is still a matter of great debate among scientists from different disciplines. So, what does it matter what I believe at this point? I am just a drop of water in the ocean of individuals trying to understand the dynamics that characterized the peopling of the world using with my colleagues DNA variation as our model. I also believe in a Supreme Being and therefore I also enjoy trying to reconcile what I understand from the Scriptures from what I have studied or researched in science. I am very satisfied with the limitations of each approach in providing a full explanation of the facts. As I wrote above, no one as a time machine to know exactly how things happened. Faith and religion will deal with issues such as ethics, morals and the reason why certain things are the way they are. Science will try to address questions on HOW certain things came to be.

I would be interested in knowing what you think is the answer to the questions you ask me. Do you have a YES or NO answer for each one of them? What evidence do you have for a YES or for a NO? Does everyone in the religious or scientific world agree with your answers? Please share.

Regarding myself, Paleo-Indians are anatomically-modern humans like you and me. They are part of the great human expansion that started from Africa (based on genetic evidence and the molecular clock) approximately 70k years ago. The genetic data that has been produced to date shows that most like our ancestors followed a coastal route in Southern Asia with branches expanding into Europe and Central Asia. Later Micronesia was colonized and lastly the American double continent approximately 15-20k years ago. Here is a human migration map with approximate dates I found online that reflect the current view based on mitochondrial DNA variation among modern humans, including Paleo-Indians (http://www.worldfamilies.net/files/image/migration_map_wfn(1).gif).

Paleo-Indians were indeed Homo sapiens sapiens like us. They probably lived a nomadic life and were hunters-gatherers, living off of what the land has to offer. Eventually, like in other parts of the world, they learned to cultivate the soil and based their living on agriculture and domestication of certain animal species. In some areas of the Americas, as you know, this resulted in the flourishing of large and complex civilizations like the Maya and the Aztecs, which at their height surpassed anything you would have found in Europe.

Just to be clear, hominids can be used in a broad sense as to include us (Homo sapiens sapiens) and anyone that is considered a close relative to our species. These "relatives" have all become extinct. This is my preferred use of the world. In a more strict sense, hominid could also refer to apes since they have "human-like" characteristics, but this is not how I was using it.

Take care.

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hoggle4
10/10/2012 12:43

Dr. Perego, thank you for replying and clarifying. We both agree that Paleo-Indians were Homo sapiens. We both agree that they were anatomically-modern humans. I am not sure if we both agree that they were human. Your answer remains a little vague on this point.

My answers to the questions are as follows:

Are you saying that Paleo-Indians were "human-like creatures" but only distant relatives to Homo Sapiens?
No. (Dr. Perego, you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the scientific community that thinks Paleo-Indians are "distant relatives" to Homo Sapiens.)

Are you are in fact suggesting that Paleo-Indians were only "human like" but something less than human?
No. (You and I both agree that they were anatomically-modern humans. You would be hard pressed to find anyone in the scientific community that would suggest they were only "human like".)

Were Paleo-Indians Homo Sapiens?
Yes.

Were Paleo-Indians human?
Yes. (The scientific community of today maintains that they were human. That has not always been the case. There were scientists such as Samuel G. Morton and scholars such as Joseph Arthur Comte de Gobineau of the Nineteenth Century who were founders of modern scientific racism.)

Dr. Perego, your attempts to reconcile religion with science are not new and your proposed ideas are not unique or original. Many before you who followed that path fell into racism and led others into it. Dehumanization of a people is historically associated with atrocities against those who are made less than human.

The living American Indians already have historical writings of explorers, colonial era whites and 19th century scholars claiming that the Indians were beasts. One example is in a letter from George Washington to James Duane, dated September 7, 1783:

"when the gradual extension of our settlements will as certainly cause the savage, as the wolf, to retire; both being beasts of prey, tho' they differ in shape."

It is disturbing that Mormon scholars would refer to the paleo-Indian ancestors of America's indigenous people as some kind of beasts. Never mind that those paleo-Indians were homo sapiens, modern humans.

And who gets to decide when they became human? When did it happen? After George Washington's letter? Maybe after the Indians mixed through enough marriages to have the genes from the family of Adam? Maybe some are still beasts? How can these religious speculations be of any good to humanity? Society should expect and demand much more than this from the world's educated and trained scientists.

Reply
10/10/2012 14:13

Hello again Hoggle4,

first, let me clarify to you that I use Homo sapiens sapiens, anatomically modern humans, and humans interchangeably as synonyms. Homo sapiens sapiens is the species both you and I and everyone else on the planet belongs to. For the past 40,000 years there has only been Homo sapiens sapiens on the earth. This includes Africans, Europeans, Asians, and Native Americans. Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, our closest relative, has been extinct for approximately this much time. FROM A GENETIC VIEWPOINT, which is the only one I can speak for, there is no significant genetic difference between modern people and those that lived on this planet for the past forty thousand years. I don't know why someone has single out Paleo-Indians, when I originally spoke about the origins of mankind as a whole. What has been circulating on the net is not what I said, but what others would like to put in my mouth. Therefore, whatever thing could be said or speculated for Paleo-Indians, is the same thing for the rest of humanity's ancestors, regardless of their geographic origin. I don't know what happened back then, but my "reconciliation of religious beliefs and science", for how far off from truth it could be, applies to everyone that lived in the past, not to a single group of people. I never ascribed to terms such as savages or beasts as I, like many other geneticists, have promoted the notion that there are not races within the human race, but a single race and that is the human race. Our physical characteristics and traits are the expression of a very small number of genes compared to the amount of DNA we share with the entire human population. No other species on the planet is more similar genetically as any two humans, regardless if you are comparing a Swedish to a Pygmy. There is more genetic variation within a population than between populations. So, if anyone would ever promote that Paleo-Indians were "beasts" than everyone in the world needs also to be labeled that way because genetically we are pretty much the same. I hope this additional points helps you clarify where I come from as a scientist. If you heard differently, it was probably someone else trying to discredit me. Everything I said or wrote is online, and smart people like you make the choice to actually contact me for a clarification rather than writing left and right what they think I said. I hope this is helpful. Sincerely. Dr. Perego

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hoggle4
10/10/2012 17:12

Thank you again for clarifying. You said "Therefore, whatever thing could be said or speculated for Paleo-Indians, is the same thing for the rest of humanity's ancestors, regardless of their geographic origin." This is something that needs to be addressed further.

The geographic origins do matter with Judeo-Christian ideas. The idea of becoming human 6,000 years ago when God breathed the spirit into "hominids" is often proposed to be the cause for the rise of civilization in the Near East. This speculation leads rapidly to a Eurocentric view with Biblical support while the Americas do not fit in the Bible.

Europe couldn't come to grips with its own ancestors in the nineteenth century. Paleo human remains were thought to be people destroyed in Noah's flood. Others thought they had been a different race, destroyed before the creation of Adam. It is not "the same thing for the rest of humanity's ancestors" because America's indigenous people do not separate themselves from their ancestors as Europeans did. Right now there are legal disputes with tribal governments and scientists over human remains that date to more than 6,000 years ago. The indigenous beliefs are that they were human, are ancestors, and deserve to be treated with indigenous religious ceremony and respect. This clashes with scientists who insist they have a right to study the past. America's indigenous beliefs are not Judeo-Christian and do not compare to European reactions to paleo ancestors. It is not the same thing at all.

Your exact words in the video I watched were "And so would you call somebody that has all of these components like eight out of nine for example, everything but the spirit, would you call that a man, or would that be something similar to but not quite a man?". You don't call them beasts, but you certainly dehumanize the ancestors. The choice of which words are used does not change the meaning.

Dr. Perego, these things you are going into to reconcile science and religion have a long history of racism and atrocity. It is a dangerous path for a scientist to go down.

Jesus Smith
10/10/2012 14:33

Ugo, How does your God view humans that existed before the (hypothesized) race of Adam & Eve? If the same, why even attempt to raise the issue or a difference? If inferior or different, are they equivalently "saveable"? If not saved, should your culture/church try to convert them?

Reply
Ugo Perego
10/10/2012 14:46

Good questions. I don't know. Have you tried to ask your God? Perhaps He knows the answer. Surely science has not provided one yet. What does your culture/science said about it? Dr. Perego

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Jesus Smith
10/11/2012 03:48

science doesn't address Adam & Eve. there's no evidence they ever existed outside the minds of ancient wanderers.

Ugo Perego
10/10/2012 18:42

Hoggle4,

you continue to insist with sentences likes "Dr. Perego, these things you are going into to reconcile science and religion have a long history of racism and atrocity. It is a dangerous path for a scientist to go down."
You are basing this comment on a mix between one sentence I shared at a conference at the UofU and the assumption that I support the biblical Judeo-Christian model of a Middle-East creation of Adam and Eve combined with a universal flood. It seems to me a strong comment and a long stretch on your end based on a lot of assumptions. Did I endorse a specific place where those things could have happened? Did I say that this is for sure what happened and that everyone else that believes otherwise is wrong? All I did was sharing a myth that was common among ancient Egyptians (I am sure you picked up on that while listening to my presentation) and then proposed some ideas in the form of questions, which is a way to say, "we don't really know, but would this make any sense, and if not, then why not?" I was careful in the choice of my word because I am aware of the beliefs you described in your comment and of the prejudice that abound among men. If evolution believes A and the Bible says B, what does A+B would look like? That is why i was asked to come and what I was asked to share as a believing scientist at the Transhumanism conference at the UofU. It seems to me that I was the first one to admit that we don't really know, but here are some ideas based on what sciences says, what the Bible says, and what ancient mythology says. Then a couple of people over the internet said, "this guy must be racist!" even though I spent the first part of my presentation stating that there are no races within the human family and that we are more alike than different. Don't you think that was a little ironic?

Reply
05/02/2013 02:17

Great post! National geographic has always performs such great project and has contributed some new information to the mankind! This time also a lot of information regarding Genography and contents related to DNA! Keep the good work up!

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